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Question asked 2020-10-19 15:44:39 ... Most recent comment 2021-07-30 09:54:23
Egg Tempera

​Hello,

I am planning to use Paraloid B72 on Egg tempera and i have some questions since it will be the first time i will be using it. I am planning to use it on icons painted with fairly high egg yolk content.

1. What percentage should be used for preparing B72 for this kind of paintings?

2. I have read that there are multiple solvents that can be used. Does the polarity of the solvent affect the paintings?. Someone mentioned that non polar solvents have a tendency to cause Fatty acid migration/ foggy spots on paintings. This was mentioned for varnishes that sink into the paintings. How does this apply to the isolation layer produced by B72. I am between using acetone or ethanol.

3. What will be the effects of sealing the paintings if they haven't cured for over a period of 3 months? For example a period between one to two weeks..

Thank you

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Moderator Answer

[2020-10-19 16:31:07]

I will put thoughts below in bold, based on working with Andrew Wyeth on his temperas for the last twelve years of his life, and then another 11 years after his death.

I am planning to use Paraloid B72 on Egg tempera and i have some questions since it will be the first time i will be using it. I am planning to use it on icons painted with fairly high egg yolk content.

1. What percentage should be used for preparing B72 for this kind of paintings?  I use 4% in xylene.

2. I have read that there are multiple solvents that can be used. Does the polarity of the solvent affect the paintings?.

I don’t think polarity of the varnish solvent has any effect; the solvent evaporates.  But you don’t want to soften the tempera paint.

Someone mentioned that non polar solvents have a tendency to cause Fatty acid migration/ foggy spots on paintings.

Fatty acids -- stearic and palmitic acids-- are exuded BY the egg tempera paint.  Non-polar solvents (such as ShellSol D-38)  are especially useful at REMOVING the fatty (waxy) powdery white efflorescence.  (At one point AW used some tempera paint on a watercolor-- and ONLY that area effloresced -- it is strictly from the egg medium and is cut down by the presence of a coating)

This was mentioned for varnishes that sink into the paintings. How does this apply to the isolation layer produced by B72. I am between using acetone or ethanol.

You should use a dilute coat-- AW hated shine on his paintings (he wanted a “dry” or “mummy” surface on his tempera paintings) but you might want shine?  Then you might use 10% or so, and it would cause a coating on the surface.

In my experience a 4% B-72 sinks into the tempera and is not evident at all as a coating on the surface-- this pleased him.  But a 4% B-72 coating cuts down tremendously on the occurrence of future fatty acid efflorescence.

3. What will be the effects of sealing the paintings if they haven't cured for over a period of 3 months? For example a period between one to two weeks..

I would not put any coating on a fresh, young tempera -- wait at least 6 months.  The egg tempera would, I’m guessing, become readily soluble in whatever B-72 is soluble in if you coat it while it’s fresh (xylene, toluene, acetone, ethanol, etc.)  “Sealing” is probably not an accurate term unless you use a really thick solution -- like 15-20%  [Which AW would have hated.  Sometimes dealers varnished his works without his permission, and he was quite unhappy with that.  And they used dammar or mastic which turned brownish yellow!]  But this should be decided upon according to the artist’s preference--no?

Thank you

Joyce Hill Stoner, PhD

Edward F. and Elizabeth Goodman Rosenberg Professor of  Material Culture, University of Delaware

Paintings Conservator  Winterthur/UD Program in Art Conservation

Director, UD Preservation Studies Doctoral Program

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-10-19 18:32:36]

Dr. Stoner is a hard act to follow, but as a long time tempera painter I'll add a few thoughts.

You're probably aware of this, but xylene's vapors are strong and noxious, so use with care.  Joyce has the advantage of lots of experience and a great spray booth; even with those advantages, I suspect she holds her breath every time she varnishes a Wyeth!   The point is that varnishing/isolating take considerable experience to do well, particularly with a relatively fast drying coating (although B-72 in xylene dries more slowly than when dissolved in acetone or ethanol).  Practice a lot!  I've known many artists who varnished for the first time on a cherished image and regreted their inexperience.  Tempera is a slow medium and it can be hard to accumulate "practice" panels; one solution is to apply leftover paint, at the end of a painting session, to a few small panels to build up practice surfaces.

Some aerosol cans of artists' picture varnish are actually B72 (last I heard, Lascaux Fixativ & Varnish and Krylon Crystal Clear Coating among them).  Formulations often change, contact the company to be sure.  Spray application may seem preferable to using a brush, but even spray cans require practice to get right (i.e. consistent, no drips). Several thin coats are preferable to a few heavy coats, as "orange peel" (rough alligator skin) can appear if sprayed too thickly.  Don't work too close to the surface or apply too slowly (can lead to orange peel) but don't work too far away or too quickly either (creates inconsistent application).  In short, once again - practice!  

Ideally, I agree it's best to wait for tempera to polymerize - 3 months minimum (I've found tempera to be generally insoluble at that point).  But not all working artists can afford to wait that long.  I've applied isolators (shellac and B-72) much more quickly (within weeks or, I confess, days) with no dissolving of the paint.  However coatings on uncured tempera tend to sink in more and can appear uneven.  I finish with a wax medium which helps to counter unevenness.  

I've isolated/varnished hundreds of tempera paintings and so far haven't seen fatty acid efflorescence on my work – perhaps because I am tempering perfectly every time?  Well, more likely because coatings do seem to suppress the issue.  Many years ago Ross Merrill (former head of conservation at the National Gallery DC) warned me that "Alcohol…used on the painted surface of a tempera painting [to clean it]…may draw some of the components of the egg yolk medium to the surface, such as the fatty acids in the paint medium.  In oil paint (and I'll assume in egg yolk tempera paints) some of these fatty acids remain essentially unchanged, and function as a lubricant or plasticizer to keep the paint elastic.  Drawing them out of the film embrittles the paint film."  This isn't the same issue as efflorescence, nor was Ross referring specifically to isolators/varnishes (rather to the issue of cleaning the surface of a tempera painting); still, I wonder if Brian and Joyce agree with this point?

Koo

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User Comment

[2020-10-20 02:36:15]

Hello,

Thank you for your quick responses and all the helpful information i will try and follow through. I have another question,regarding the time of varnishing. Sadly people do not have the patience to wait for the ET to polymerise and then varnish it,they are abit demanding.. That is my main problem.

From where i studied the teachers taught us to use olifa/ boiled linseed oil to seal the icons which I didn't like at all. I experimented using poppy oil instead and then sealing on top,after complete drying with a varnish. Sometimes it worked but there were also failures where everything turned foggy. I used damar varnish as well but it is hard to work with. Sometimes it doesn't dry at all.

I thought of adding some of the varnish that i will be using for varnishing, in the egg emulsion. I am guessing its presence will reduce any after effects when using the varnish after a week or. I read that for Tempera grassa they used oil and varnish with wine. I am planning to experiment,i have no idea what will happen.

Is there something else that can be used for ET left to cure for a week or so? I am trying W&N Artisans water based varnish,it didn't cause and problems but its a weak varnish i think. I have also tried Gamvar varnish but it caused FA efflorescence.

Dear Koo Schadler you have mention that you use a wax medium to counter uneveness? Can you explain abit further on that please? Also when you mention that tempering well does not cause FA efflorescence,what do you mean? During my studies i have seen different ways of painting ET. Some people used to paint like watercolour,others used a very thick paste like mixture to start the icons,one or two layers were sufficient to seal the area as opposed to the 10+ layers of the watercolour like painters.

Thank you


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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-10-20 11:57:59]

Egg tempera artists are rarely prolific since it's a slow medium; so there's constant pressure to produce and get work out into the world – I'm sympathetic.

To correctly temper and varnish egg tempera, it's important to understand PVC, pigment volume concentrate. It's been discussed previously on this forum (enter into search engine), I'll try to keep it simple.  Basically every paint has an ideal ratio of pigment to binder (it varies among binders and, to varying degrees, among pigments).  For egg tempera, the ratio is approximately 1 part pigment : 1 part binder (with minor differences among a few colors, a subtlety we needn't address for now).  Most people add a percentage of water to yolk to make egg yolk medium; many people work with pigment pastes that have a percentage of water.  So, to temper properly, you have to mentally subtract out whatever water is added to medium and/or pigment pastes to achieve the correct ratio of 1 part pigment : 1 part egg yolk.  This sounds mysterious and daunting to newcomers, but experienced tempera painters know the feel/behavior of properly tempered paint and, with practice, good tempering becomes second nature.

Once paint is properly tempered, you can use as is (consistency of light to heavy cream, depending on your egg yolk medium) or add water (thin to consistency of milk or watercolor).  Whatever water is added evaporates away, leaving behind the correct ratio of pigment to binder.  As long as paint is tempered correctly at the start, the consistency can be altered by adding any percentage of water. This is why you see tempera artists working with thick paint, thin paint, and everything in between.

An under tempered paint has too little yolk - it tends to dry chalky, not adhere well, create dust, smear.  An overtempered paint has too much yolk - it tends to feel greasy and slippery, layers are hard to build up, may eventually crack.  While you needn't get the ratio absolutely perfect, you want to be in the ballpark (more or less a 1:1 ratio) to create well behaved paint and good adhesion. 

As the painting coheres over time, an over tempered paint naturally expresses to the surface excess lipids; this is "fatty acid migration" (FAM).   Other factors can play a part in FAM (i.e. artwork which moves between dry and humid environment seems prone), but fundamentally I think FAM results from too much binder in the paint. This is why I joked that the lack of FAM in my work must indicate that I temper perfectly each time (when, in fact, it's probably because I varnish, which is thought to suppress FAM).  

From what I hear, some Wyeth paintings show FAM - which isn't necessarily a surprise.  Seeing his work in person I've noted varying degrees of shine on the surface: slightly over tempered in parts, a whisper under tempered in others - not enough to jeopardize the paint but enough to create slightly uneven finishes and, perhaps, occasionally FAM.  At least, that is my understanding (please correct me, Brian or Joyce, if I am oversimplifying). 

Some icon traditions encourage the application of regular "nourishing layers"; i.e. thinned washes of egg yolk medium.  Nourishing layers are initially gratifying (because they re-saturate and intensify values and colors, like a varnish).  But there isn't a need for them (unless previous paint layers are very under tempered) and they throw off the correct ratio of pigment to binder, injecting unnecessary fats into the paint layers (which can eventually create problems like cracking or FAM). So you don't want to work with an "egg rich" paint (as you've described it to me); you want a "properly tempered" paint. 

Okay, now onto varnishing. One of the characteristics of egg tempera is that it's correct ratio of pigment to binder (or critical PVC) yields a paint with a very high percentage of pigment (a high solid content).  In fact, there is so much pigment relative to binder that pigment particles protrude above the surface of the paint film to create an irregular, porous, open surface.  I'd like to insert an illustration here, but not sure how to do it...Brian, help? (or the questioner, who I know, can email me).

This irregularity creates the matte appearance of egg tempera.  Varnishing fills in the porosity and smooths the surface, which increases saturation and shine.  

When a varnish is applied directly atop an irregular, porous egg tempera painting, the varnish sinks into that porosity.  This is why varnishes on egg tempera can appear uneven and may take a long time to dry (coatings that dry via oxygen aren't well exposed).  A coating directly on egg tempera also becomes nearly inextricably part of the painting (it doesn't sit on top of the paint film, but sinks into/meshes with it).  

One solution to these challenge is to first apply an "isolating" layer to egg tempera – a thin coating that dries quickly through evaporation of its solvent, and thus doesn't have a lot of time to sink into tempera's porosity. Then, on top of this "isolator" a painter could (if desired) apply another coating, for more protection or to control  shine.  

For example, I first "isolate" my temperas with either shellac (a controversial choice discussed in other posts) or B-72; then I finish with "wax medium" (wax, solvent and synthetic resin; there are many commercially produced wax mediums such as Natural Pigments, Gamblin, Grumbacher, Renaissance Wax).  The isolating layer protects the painting; it also allows me to apply wax medium before the tempera has fully cured (the mechanical action of rubbing on wax can smear an uncured tempera).  Wax medium creates a softer, more organic finish that I prefer to the isolator finish (and adds a bit more protection).  

While the natural finish of egg tempera is matte, isolating/varnishing allows for any degree of saturation and shine. Many tempera artist object to altering the natural tempera finish but, as Dr. Stoner notes, it's really up to the artist (nevermind that icons have been varnished for centuries; and many [pretty much all?] the Renaissance temperas we see in museums have, at this point, been varnished). 

I am skeptical about mixing varnish into paint – each dries at different rates through different means; I think the varnish could interfere with the polymerization of egg yolk into a stable paint film.  But I am not a conservator - Joyce or Brian better address this question.  It is possible to add a drying oil or resin (synthetic or natural) to egg tempera, to create a tempera grassa paint – but that's a whole other topic and I've already gone on too long.

Koo Schadler

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2020-10-20 19:11:20]

koo.pngkoo.pdf

Koo, if you email me the image, I can post if for you.

As to nourishing layers, they are probably a source of abundant free fatty acids. Such layers probably greatly exacerbate efflorescence. Varnishes seem to slow or stop efflorescence.

BTW Wow this thread really took off today.

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User Comment

[2020-10-21 08:36:42]

​I am grateful for all the help and information you have given me. I will try and follow through!

Thank you!

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2020-10-23 10:00:39]

​Koo, I I have uploaded the image. BTW, our IT person has fixed the problem and you can again upload images if you wish.

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-10-23 16:43:53]

​Perfect!  Thanks Brian, illustrations are very helpful, especilly to visual people like artists!

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[2020-10-27 01:35:01]

​Thank you for the photographs,I have actually tried practicing the 1:1 ratio and it made alot of difference. I guess ET as a technique needs alot of time and practice to get used to it. 

Following my original question on Paraloid B72. I have prepared the 4% solution. I will be trying on left over paint as advised. If i understood correctly B72 provides isolation of the paintings and then the surface can be coated with any varnish of choice? Independent of the solvent that it contains?

If that is the case 4% B72 provides enough isolation for successive varnish coating? Is one layer of 4% B72 enough? Or should i make it more concentrare if i will be applying only one layer?

Thank you

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-10-29 13:18:08]

You are asking good questions. Yes, the B-72 can be considered an "isolator", on top of which you can apply another coating, or "final varnish".  Why add a final varnish?  It's an additional layer of protection; it's removable (since it's separated from the painting by the isolating layer of B-72) if future conservation is necessary (i.e. the final varnish ages, or the surface is damaged, dirtied); and a final varnish allows for control of the painting's finish (satin, semi-gloss, gloss, high gloss, depending on the varnish and/or additives within the varnish).  Any varnish that goes on oil painting (and probably on acrylic, too) would work; there are so many options it's impossible for me to address them all (never mind that I'm experienced in only a few).  So you need to look into what sort of varnish you want (solvent, drying time, finish, etc.) and, once again…practice!  

You are right to ask about solvent: you must be sure that the varnish you apply on top does not share a solvent with B-72, or you will dissolve the B-72 isolator as you apply the varnish.  B-72 has many solvents (ethanol, acetone, toluene, xylene) but most oil paint varnishes are not soluble in those solvents; most oil varnishes are soluble in mineral spirits (either odorless, called OMS; or full strength, called by many names depending on formulation such as white spirits, Stoddard solvent, paint thinner) or turpentine.  I'm not an oil paint varnish or solvent expert by any means, so if you have questions in this regard best to ask another moderator.

I'm much more experienced with shellac as an isolator and am in the process of transitioning to B-72 (I need more practice with it).  In my limited experience with B-72, I've found I need a slightly stronger formulation (maybe 6-8% solution; I'm still experimenting…) to sufficiently isolate the egg tempera so that the varnish (in my case, a wax medium) sits evenly on top.  There are different influencing factors to consider: how much tempera paint have you built up (an isolator may sink in more on thicker paint layers); how long has the egg tempera polymerized or cured (isolator sinks in less the longer the painting has cured); how you apply the B-72 (via spray or brush on, as each deposits different amounts of isolator - I don't have a spray booth so I use a sponge brush); what your final varnish is (for example, a pasty wax medium doesn't sink in to the same degree as a liquid varnish) – and so on.  You'll need to experiment.  Aim for the thinnest possible solution that isolates the painting sufficiently to allow for an even application of the final varnish. 

You could also apply nothing on top of the B-72.  Then, in a sense, your isolator becomes, by default, a sort of final varnish.  It's not as protective, but certainly more protective than nothing.  

If you're wondering about the uncertainties of this process I think it's mostly because there aren't many tempera artists to begin with, and only a very small portion of those who varnish (and mostly they are icon painters using olifa, which I believe nearly all conservators would agree is a terrible varnish).  There's not much commercial incentive to figure out the process because the market is incredibly small (although there are some generous people in the industry - George O'Hanlon and Sarah Sands come to mind - helping tempera artists with the process).  So how to effectively, responsibly varnish contemporary egg tempera paintings is still somewhat uncharted waters.  Yes, Dr. Stoner has figured it out beautifully for Wyeth's work, and offers an excellent starting point….but more needs to be understood for artists who have expectations, circumstances different from Wyeth. 

Please let us know how it works out. 

Koo

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[2020-11-01 04:48:01]

​Thank you for replying. I am currently experimenting using ethanol as my B72 solvent. I am using this because i think that due to its fast  evaporating  time it will cause less damage to the ET layer. I am doing these experiments on ET paint that has cured over 2 years,over weeks,days even hours...extreme but i need to know how it behaves..I am applying B72 with a brush..but i am planning to spray it as well..

Well i started with 4% that caused abit of whitening on the fresh ET that was left for 3-4 days,i dont remember its effect on the fully cured one,i think it just  maintains the overall matte appearance.

I then used 10% . This gives abit more saturation to the paint but not like gloss varnish. If more layers are applied on top, the saturation increases. 

For the ET which is fairly fresh..i used different *Tempering* ratios if thats correct.. Over tempered, Under tempered and correctly tempered. There was saturation of the colours but i am not yet sure ...i need to experiment more..i think there was some whitening on some of the colours. I haven't tested all the pigments in my palette yet. My fear is with yellow ochre..usually that is the pigment that caused alot of problems when i had  varnished  some of the icons. It turned white!

These results i think ,don't offer much yet since i believe that maybe some time should pass and see how these layers behave on the relatively fresh ET. They should be done on different pigments as well. Now i am just trying to see the effect depending on the egg yolk content.

 

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-11-02 10:18:01]

​​Thanks so much for reporting your experiments so far - very interesting.   

I don't know what that "whitening" is.  I have not seen it on my own paintings (although most of my work is in other's hands, so who knows....).  I did see it appear, after a year or so, on some varnish and isolator test panels.  I can't discern a predictable pattern, what might be instigating it; the whitening appears in varying amounts (from very minimal to a lot) on perhaps 5% of different test panels (most pronounced on paint samples with Laropal A1 as an isolator + wax medium on top).  See attached image, one portion of one test panel.   Varnish Panel, Whitening.jpeg   It's a bit hard to understand my notations, I'm including the image primarily to show the whitening.  Is this what you're seeing?

This whitening looks akin to fatty acid efflorescence on tempera, so perhaps one explanation is that some isolators and/or varnishes (or their solvent) draw lipids up to the surface (which are then, unfortunately, trapped under the isolator or varnish, and can't be wiped away, as fatty acid efflorescence generally can be).  Or, maybe it's salts/minerals within certain pigments being drawn to the surface? I continually dry out and then rehydrate my pigment pastes, and sometimes this draws a powdery whiteness to the surface of some colors; whatever this is that occassionally effloresces on some of my pigment pastes also looks a bit like this whitening.  

But this is all speculation...I don't know what the whitening is.  Any thoughts from Brian, Joyce, George?

While the thinking is that isolating and/or varnishing may surpress efflorescence, perhaps in some instances isolating/varnishing can instigate and/or trap efforescence. This is pretty much my nightmare scenario regarding varnishing egg tempera!  It would be great to understand it better....

Koo

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2020-11-02 10:50:22]

Koo

I can’t tell for sure from the image but the “whitening” on your panel seems to be associated with the application of wax. We commonly see efflorescence on wax surfaces. Wax contains plenty of free fatty acids.

In my experience, this defect usually comes from a few different mechanisms. Fatty acid efflorescence which can usually be wiped away if treated soon after its appearance. A similar effect can be seen if a varnish is applied in a too fast drying solvent like acetone. In conservation we call this defect “bloom.” The rapid evaporation causes a cooling of the surface below the dew point causing a precipitation of water. The water can then be trapped in the surface coating creating a haze. This is a varnish defect and could be remedied by removing the varnish. This also why it has always been recommended to only varnish of relatively dry days where there is little moisture in the air.

Finally, there is blanching where the actual paint has fissure and minute pockets which scatter the light. This is almost always caused by overzealous cleaning by poorly trained restorers. It could also happen if the artwork is stored in a very hot, overly dry environment and becomes desiccated. The application of an additional varnish layer can sometimes remedy this.

BTW, I do not think that Joyce monitors this forum as regularly as we do (she is super busy) I will email her a link to the topic again.

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-11-02 10:56:25]

​I was just reviewing an email conversation I had many years ago with Alan Phenix (former conservator at the Getty) in which he notes that much of the fatty material in egg yolk probably remains mobile after the paint has dried (unlike the lipids in oil paint, which are drying oils).  So, egg tempera paint, when over-tempered with too much yolk (or, perhaps, even when perfectly tempered?) seems always, potentially, vulnerable to lipids traveling up to the surface; perhaps instigated by changes in humidity (as Joyce notes) or perhaps by solvent action on the paint surface?  Perhaps the reason some isolators and/or varnishes inhibit lipid efforescene (as Dr. Stoner sees on Wyeth's temperas coated with B-72) is because the isolator/varnish sinks into the porosity of an egg tempera paint film and sort of "freezes" the lipids in place?  Just speculating, trying to understand... Koo

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2020-11-02 11:08:12]

That is certainly true. What also seems to be the case is that a varnish slows or eliminated them from coming to the surface.

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-11-02 11:20:45]

​​I appreciate Joyce is very busy and am glad she chimes in when she can.  The whitening on my test panels is definitely most pronounced under the wax finishes, but is also present elsewhere, under other finishes; and unfortunately none can be wiped off, all are "trapped" under the isolator/varnish on top....  In all instances the whitening appeared several months or years after the isolator/varnish was applied - I don't fully understand what's going on.   

Good to mention the importance of isolating/varnishing on dry days.   The original questioner might consider having a hygrometer in his studio, to be sure relative humidity is low.  I aim for 60% or less RH when isolating/varnishing; what do conservators recommend?

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2020-11-02 11:36:32]

I am not sure that an exact number is stated but the closer to 50%, the better. 60% is probably totally fine.

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Moderator Answer (george o'hanlon)

[2020-11-02 13:18:22]

​I believe at one time, Koo and I speculated that the whitening under the varnish was due to lipids in the egg yolk dissolved in the non-polar solvents and rose to the surface as the solvent evaporated. Correct me if I am wrong, Koo, but this speculation arose because Koo did not observe in paintings isolated with polyvinyl acetate dissolved in acetone. This, however, would not explain why this occurs much later, but likely relatively soon after the varnish is applied. Of course, lipids are also soluble in polar solvents, so this may not be a valid argument either.

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-11-03 07:22:15]

​Yes, George - you are correct, that was our thinking, and it still makes sense to me.  However, as you note, it doesn't explain why whitening appears later and/or increases over time.  

I think the whitening we're seeing are lipids, which remain ever mobile in egg tempera, rising up the surface.  The mystery is what causes them to effloresce.  Humidity, as Joyce notes, could well be a factor.  The primary questions I would like answered are....

1.  Are there other factors that might cause lipids to migrate up to the surface?

2.  Is the primary cause over tempering (too much yolk in the paint relative to pigment)?

3.  Or, because lipids stay ever mobile in ET, could even a properly tempered paint potentially experience lipid efflorescence under adverse circumstances (humidity changes, or whatever else may  cause it)?

4.  What isolators/varnishes lock the lipids in place?   And do they do so permanently?

I realize there may not be answers to these questions at this point - just a wish list. (-:


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[2020-11-03 14:20:29]

​Hello,

The whitening shown on the photograph is similar yes to what has happened on my panels but also on the icon. If i get the chance i can try and upload some photographs. It is similar but in some ways..in the case of ochre it took the appearance of seriously under tempered pigment or a fresco like appearance. It was the same for the terra verde pigment as well. I also noticed that the flesh tones had changed then. They were orange like and then turned "colder" in terms of hue,the redness got lost. 

I was wondering about the process of ET curing?  I have read some of your questions posted in the Natural Pigments forum. Loss of water,temperature and light might contribute. I am not sure about light since some of the pigments are light sensitive and change hue.  In the case of icons i am thinking that  if left to cure i think  they would have been protected from light. They also wouldn't have been exposed since alot of insects etc tend to become attracted to the egg content of the paintings. So that leaves loss of water?

If that is the case,does speeding up that process helps in the overall curing?

What is the most accurate way to check if ET has cured? 

Thank you

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-11-04 09:46:22]

Tempera paint quickly dries to the touch via evaporation of its water content - but drying isn't quite the same thing as polymerizing (i.e. "to form a polymer").  Egg yolk polymerization is a complicated (and not fully understood) process.  Here's how I understand it, and hopefully more scientifically trained moderators will clarify where needed.  

Egg yolk contains (approximate amounts):

water                          50%

egg oil (lipids, fats)       30% 

proteins                       15%

other ingredients          5%  (the most important being lecithin, an emulsifier that enables egg oil to stay suspended within its watery base). 

Egg oil is generally considered a "non-drying" oil (versus, for example, drying oils used in oil paint such as linseed, safflower, walnut, poppy).  The degree to which egg oil does or does not polymerize is one of it's mysteries... 

Egg proteins are made of tightly folded molecular strands, held together by weak bonds; when subject to heat, sunlight, and/or oxygen the bonds break and the strands unravel, then interconnect (cross link) to form a cohesive film.  In short: egg proteins create the paint film, egg oil contributes plasticity to the paint film. 

Heat is one way to break down the bonds to allow the protein strands to unravel, then reconnect (as seen in a cooked egg).  The drawback to heat as a "curing" agent is that it produces cloudiness.  This is most obvious in egg white (or "albumen"; not to be confused with water soluble proteins called albumin), which transforms from transparent to opaque when heated.  Of course tempera artists use the yolk (not egg white), and yolk doesn't change as significantly; still, it does become more opaque when cooked.  How much this opacity visually impacts a paint film, I can't say. I've been told that heat also adversely affects plasticity (I don't know this for sure –yes or no, other moderators?).  In short, heat isn't the best way to create an egg tempera paint film. 

Oxygen and light cure by evaporating the water content (in paint and yolk), which causes the proteins to unravel and then cross-link with each other (FYI, latex paints "cure" the same way).  The oxygen and ambient light in a studio are sufficient for this to occur.  

I've been told that actinic light rays (in sunlight) create the best egg tempera paint film, but I don't know why this is so.  Obviously there are challenges to placing a painting in direct sunlight: earth pigments are pretty permanent but many organic colors are prone to fading, and excessive heat can cause cracking in paint and/or gesso.  So I don't recommend direct sunlight… unless a painter needs to speed up cure time of initial, underlying paint layers.  In that case, you can place a painting in the sun for a few hours or more.  Don't let the panel get hot to the touch, and protect the surface from weather and critters (cats, dogs, mice and insects are attracted to yolk and might nibble on your image).  

How long does it take for egg tempera to polymerize?  I haven't found a consensus for how long it takes egg tempera to cure.  It varies depending on factors like number and thickness of paint layers, and drying conditions.  It's common to see 6 to 12 months given, but I think those numbers may be superimposed onto tempera from oil painting.  Egg tempera has less binder than oil.  Tempera paint layers are a fraction of the depth of most oil paintings.  Its high PVC surface is more porous and open to light and oxygen.  For all these reasons it seems unlikely that a tempera painting needs a cure time equal to oil.  That logic, combined with many years practical experience, leads me to believe that tempera paint polymerizes within about 3 months.  However I don't have a study to confirm this and often see longer cure times given.  

How do you know when tempera paint has polymerized?  Two common ways to test if oil paint has cured are (1) gently press a fingernail into the thickest part of the painting and if no mark is left, the paint is cured, and (2) carefully wipe a corner of the painting with a white rag wetted with a bit of odorless mineral spirits, and if no color shows up on the rag, the painting is cured.  Egg tempera paint layers are so thin and its PVC so high that the fingernail test doesn't work; and mineral spirits aren't the solvent for tempera.  Egg tempera needs its own tests for polymerization.  

One possibility is to dampen, with water, a white paper towel or rag and tentatively dab at a painting's edge (that would be covered by a frame) to see if color comes up - do so with great care, of course!  Another way to identify polymerized tempera paint is to gently polish the surface: if there is a certain hardness to the surface (recognizable through experience), and no color shows up on the cloth, and a gentle buffing doesn't mar the surface but instead pulls out a subtle shine, the surface is probably cured (additionally, when I try to work on a surface like this I find the paint slips, slides, and doesn't adhere well – also signs of polymerization).  These tests, while not definitive, have been good indicators of a cured painting for me.

FYI…the following articles discuss egg yolk polymerization (be forewarrned, they are technically dense). Last time I checked they were available for free download from the internet: Alan Phenix, The composition and chemistry of eggs and egg tempera; and Jaap Boon, Sophie L. Peulve, Oscar F. van den Brink, Marc C.  Duursma and David Rainford et al., Molecular aspects of mobile and stationary phases in ageing tempera and oil paint films.  Both papers in: Early Italian Paintings, Techniques and Analysis: Proceedings of the Symposium held at the Stichting Restauratie Atelier Limburg, Maastricht, 9-10 October 1996. Maastricht: Limburg Conservation Institute, 1997.

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-11-04 17:52:59]

​I want to clarify one more thing.  Many tempera artists, myself among them, use a hairdryer to speed up water evaporation (which begins polymerization).  I do not (and tell my student not to) use a hairdryer to heat up the panel to the point of cooking the egg.  When applying hairdryer air to a panel, I regularly feel the painting's surface to make sure the temperature doesn't go beyond modestly warm (certainly not hot, i.e. in the 150 degree range necessary to cook an egg).  

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[2020-12-08 13:47:16]

​Hello,

I have and i am still experimenting with B72..and i would like to share what i found and ask some questions as well.

I am using 10% B72 in ethanol and i have been primarily testing on correctly tempered yellow ochre,since i think is the most frequently used pigment..

I have painted rectangles with the pigment and left them at various time periods to cure,12hrs, 9 days (wanted for a week but couldnt find the time) and for two weeks.

There was a control not varnished and a part varnished with Gamvar. I used Gamvar because i know it causes foggy spots if the ET is not cured..just to see the layers needed with B72 and if i understood correctly then OMS solvents dont dissolve B72?

I have applied B72 with a brush and have also sprayed it. With the brush i have applied 1/2/5 layers.

The results where the following:

12hrs there were foggy parts for the 1/2 layers and less for the 5

For the 9/14 days less foggy spots and increase in colour saturation as the layers increase.

I have sprayed B72 only on the 2 week old paint..and on this rectangle used afterwards Gamvar and Artisans Water based varnish (AWV). This rectangle was sprayed in two and five layers. I had covered half after spraying the two layers and continued up to 5. What i had observed was that spraying doesnt cause any colour resaturation compared to the brush,it retains the matt appearance from B72,guess since it forms a more superficial coating. Also where i had covered half of the rectangle there was a built up of B72 and formed a foggy line...

I had then left it and the following day varnished with AWV. This caused colour resaturation and eliminated the foggy line. Then I had tested Gamvar. The 2 layer spraying didnt offer much protection the B72 was uneven and spots appeared which seems that we were spraying a very low amount. The 5 layer did offer protection but i dont know maybe the solvent in Gamvar does affect B72 since there were brush marks on the coating. The colours didnt become saturated but retained the overall matt look form B72 when sprayed.

B72 gives horrible results on gold leaf placed using polyment. The gold becomes foggy and if there is dust or something it gives spots everywhere.

Now for the questions..

1. Is it normal for the B72 solution to look foggy while in the container after the 10% conc was prepared? Foggy solution depends on the concentration?

2. If B72 becames concentrated on the painting it becames foggy? Thats the only explanation i can think about for the foggy line but then again..increasing the layers caused less of this effect.Especially when applied with a Brush. I forgot to say that on the sprayed test i also brushed a strip of B72 and gave similar effects like the AWV.

3. What varnish would you suggest placing on top of B72 coating. The varnish should form a hard coating. What worries me is that people are not careful and when cleaning and taking care of icons they put too much efford. B72 is relatively soft as a coating. I searched for various varnishes,liquitex,golden maimeri. I know i need to learn about the solvent compatibily but what about the hardness of the final coat. Does anyone have any experience /suggestions?

I apologise for the long text! Thank you!

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2020-12-08 14:37:33]

I have less experience with B-72 as a varnish and have asked for some comments form those that do. I would, however, like to mention that B-72 is not perfectly soluble in straight ethanol (or at least the 95% possible without resorting to very sophisticated methods of refining beyond distillation). Additionally, if one is using denatured alcohol, the other solvents added to make ethanol non-consumable may influence solubility. When I use B-72 it is usually dissolved in xylene for painted works. There are times when I may need it dissolved in acetone as an adhesive but certainly not to be applied over oil paint. I have used B-72 in an 8-1 mixture of ethanol-acetone and achieved a clear solution. You may want to experiment to see if this is viable.

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2020-12-17 17:32:03]

B-72 is soluble in many things, as noted on its MSDS.  Ethyl alcohol is listed as one of its solvents, so not sure why it didn't work - except, as Brian notes, the alcohol may not have been sufficiently pure.  I've had luck dissolving B-72 in acetone, Toluene, Xylene; none produced any foggy issues.  

If the problem was incomplete solubility, tempera's high PVC surface might have exacerbated the issue - the dissolved, transparent portion of the B-72 would have sunk into tempera's porous surface, while the undissolved, more opaque particles could have separated out and settled on top (for this same reason, matte varnishes directly atop ET cause cloudiness because the matting particles separate out).   

B72 is insoluble in White Spirit, so any varnish with that as it's solvent would work on top.  I've opted, after isolating, to finish with a wax medium (Renaissance wax being my favorite, but I also like Gamblin's and Dorland's) – but they may not give the level of protection you're looking for.  While I've played with several varnishes on demo panels, I don't have enough experience to report on how well they work long term, and so I can't be much help in that regard.  Thanks for checking in with the results of your experiments - there's more to learn regarding varnishing egg tempera and it's helpful to have others experimenting. 

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[2021-05-19 07:33:02]

​Hello,

It has been a long time since i have written anything. I saw the new thread on Varnishing and though of posting an update-maybe someone will find it usefull and even suggest improvements.

Following Brian's advice i have used the ratio of ethanol and acetone to dissolve B72 and it worked fine,there was no cloudy solution which means the resin had fully dissolved.

As for the experiments i tried using higher B72 concentrations in hope of reducing the layers needed to isolate/protect the icons from the varnishes that i would apply afterwards. I used up to 15% ,and i have found that from these concentrations 12% works fine in terms of protection and application. I am trying to get used to applying it with a foam brush,,but its still tricky for me..the brush tends to soak up alot of the solution and then release alot..even if i try to remove as much as i can before applying..Any advice on anything concerning this method would be helpful. I might try spraying it as well.

Once the icon is painted i wait about 9 to 10 days and then i apply B72 in one layer. I do it in small strokes and i also use a hairdryer at a distance to increase the drying time. I do this because while experimenting i have noticed that sometimes the paint might bleach if drops of the solution remain longer at an area. I am guessing the acetone/ethanol solution is not very egg friendly.

I have said at another post that if B72 is applied on gold leaf it doesnt look very nice. Well if someone is going to apply another varnish on top the appearance of the gold is restored somehow,especially if the varnish is gloss. Maybe it hinders the resins appearance I do not know..

I have used different varnishes so far on B72 isolated test paint. Lascaux varnish seems to react with B72 and dissolves it... 

Other water based varnishes such as Polyvine Crystal Clear Lacquer (UK based company), Winsor and Newtons Artisans  Water Based Varnish do not react.

Lefranc Bourgeois Vernis A Tableaux,Anti UV aerosol also reacted..i do not know why...it is suppose to contain Stoddard Solvent..which is white spirit based.

I have even tried a floor varnish to see whether it would react. It was a water based satin varnish from a UK company called V33. The varnish did not react like the others but there was a very subtle cloudiness.When dry gave a hard surface so provided more protection compared to the others. But i guess it is on the extreme side...



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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2021-05-19 09:07:28]

Thanks for reporting back on your experiments.  Here are a few thoughts.

Foam Brush: Yes, it's tricky to load a foam brush with enough but not too much liquid.  I've always used foam brushes to apply shellac (similar in quality/viscosity to B72) & have gotten pretty good at loading the brush – I would say it's mostly a matter of felt experience.  After doing it enough times I now can feel, as I load and then hold the brush in my hand, when it has the correct amount.  So it might be just a matter of more practice and developing a sort of felt, muscle memory.

However…I have a new, thin, flat, synthetic filament varnish brush from Natural Pigments that I'm eager to try – it has a good feel to it and may work well with B72 (although, because it is more expensive than a disposable foam brush, will require cleaning to get repeated usage).  

"While experimenting i have noticed that sometimes the paint might bleach if drops of the solution remain longer at an area. I am guessing the acetone/ethanol solution is not very egg friendly."  You are correct - acetone and alcohol are strong polar solvents and, from what I understand, can swell and weaken a paint film, and potentially draw out plasticizing components (i.e. egg oil).  So maybe what you are seeing are egg lipids being drawn to the surface (a sort of immediate Fatty Acid migration). Then again, maybe it's something else – a sort of "blanching" (see National Gallery Technical Bulletin, Volume 4, 1980 "Some Observations on Blanching").  It's hard to say.

"Lascaux varnish seems to react with B72 and dissolves it…"  

At the time of this writing, lascaux varnish is B72; and, in a sprayable form, contains a large amount of solvent - so not surprising that the underlaying layers are dissolving.  You need to varnish atop with something that has a different solvent, such as water, as in the W&N Varnish. 

I'm wondering: did you have any problem getting a water-based coating to behave atop the B72? 

"Lefranc Bourgeois Vernis A Tableaux,Anti UV aerosol also reacted..i do not know why...it is suppose to contain Stoddard Solvent..which is white spirit based." 

This is interesting to me because when I applied Renaissance Wax on top of B72, the cloth with which I applied the wax picked up a bit of color.   This meant either (1) my solution of B72 (1 part B72 to 15 parts acetone) hadn't fully isolated the tempera, so the cloth was in touch with and abrading the surface of the painting, or (2) the Renaissance Wax, mineral spirit based, was affecting the underlying B72 isolating layer.  Given that mineral spirits are not the solvent for B72, I dismissed the second theory and presumed my isolating coat was, at a 1:15, too thin.  And this may still be the correct explanation of why I picked up some pigment.  But now that I hear you too experienced a top coat with mineral spirits affecting an underlying layer of B72, I'm wondering….

Varnishing contemporary egg temperas is complicated, and hard to resolve without more research and studies.  Depending on artists to do these studies isn't ideal (we lack proper training, equipment, chemical expertise, resources and time – after all, we are compensated for painting, not research!) but so it goes in the obscure world of egg tempera.  I'm in the midst of rewriting the chapter in my book on varnishing egg tempera, and as always I'm somewhat flummoxed by the topic - each new approach seems to generate more questions.  I know Dr. Stoner has success when coating Wyeth's painting with a thin solution of B72, and am very appreciative for her sharing her expertise.  (And the fact that she feels it's worthwhile to apply B72 to Wyeth's work seems to say something about egg tempera and varnishing...)  Still, the experience of a conservator working with professional equipment varnishing the well polymerized work of a single artist hasn't yet translated into an effective working method for an ordinary ET painter in the studio, using a variety of materials and methods, varnishing recently completed paintings.  It's still not clear how to do this properly or effectively.  

I don't think it's pointless or impossible to figure out. After all, an unvarnished egg tempera, with it's absorbent, porous, irregular (i.e. vulnerable) high PVC surface presents challenges too!  Historically temperas were often varnished, albeit imperfectly (olifa being a good example) – and there will always be artists who want to varnish for the protection and saturation.  So I remain convinced this is a worthwhile puzzle to  solve… but for now I think it's still a puzzle.  Your contribution is helpful and appreciated.

Koo

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[2021-05-19 13:37:03]

​Hello,

I thought that Lascaux varnish is water based,i remember that you mentioned that the spray contained B72 but i thought the liquid one was different,that was the reason for using it. It is quite popular amongst iconpainters..but i do see subtle whitening on their icons. Others tend to use more harsh varnishes like the floor varnish that i have tried or even varnishes based on white spirit,used mainly for wood protection.

Their works do not suffer much because i am guessing is due to the chemical nature of their pigment? I tend to use natural pigments and minerals. What are your thoughts on this? I mean there is the chemical part of the pigments and then the egg emulsion problem.

Problems sometimes appear if they build up their layers through glazing. Bleaching occurs.

Some russian iconpainters do something else. They saturate the layers of paint with olifa,or another oil. Remove the excess and leave the icons to fully dry up for a few days. They then varnish their icons.

Concerning the renaissance wax,i think that your layers were not thick enough to protect the paint. I have mentioned some experiments with various numbers of B72 layers. The thinnest ones did not provide any protection from the varnishes that were reacting with paint.( As a test for how many layers were needed for protection).

For the L&B aerosol varnish. I have spoken to someone and told me that the problem might have been that i didnt shake the spray enough and might have caused problems. I don't know..i got confused because he also paints with  natural pigments and traditional egg emulsion and sprays his icons directly with no isolation etc. He does  this after 3 to 4 days and said that all is fine.


I didn't  quite understand your question on water based varnishes on top of B72? Do you mean if the surface produced is even ?

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2021-05-19 14:34:49]

I thought that Lascaux varnish is water based,i remember that you mentioned that the spray contained B72 but i thought the liquid one was different,

Not, Lascaux's varnish is not water-based. Spray varnishes are generally made from the same resin as a brush varnish; there's just a lot more solvent in the spray varnish (which is what makes it spray-able – and also, by the way, more noxious; always use a respirator). 

i do see subtle whitening on their icons. 

It's very hard, without seeing and studying this whitening, to say what it is.  Could be excess lipids migrating to the surface (fatty acid migration, FAM), or moisture trapped under a varnish, or some sort of mysterious blanching (as discussed in that NG bulletin I mentioned), or…who knows.  

I know quite a few icon painters who are enthusiastic about adding extra egg yolk to paint & glazes (thinking that egg yolk contributes luminosity - it does not) and to the paint surface via nourishing layers (which are generally unnecessary, unless a layer of paint is notably under tempered). Too much egg yolk isn't good – contributes to various problems in the future, among them FAM.

Others tend to use more harsh varnishes like the floor varnish that i have tried or even varnishes based on white spirit ,used mainly for wood protection.

White spirits (mineral spirits) in a varnish isn't necessary the problem.  It's the resin and additives used in a floor varnish that are problematic; they are more apt to yellow (perhaps even intended to yellow, to warm/color a wood finish), and not made to last as long as artists materials (i.e. B72 remains colorless and soluble for up to 200 years potentially – I doubt whatever one buys at Home Depot can match that). 

Their works do not suffer much because i am guessing is due to the chemical nature of their pigment? I tend to use natural pigments and minerals. What are your thoughts on this? I mean there is the chemical part of the pigments and then the egg emulsion problem.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "suffer", what specific problems you're referring to… Artists have always worked with a variety of pigments: natural and synthesized, organic and inorganic – it's fine to have this mix, as long as you're using artists grade pigments. 

Problems sometimes appear if they build up their layers through glazing. Bleaching occurs.

Could be FAM, due to excess egg in the paint layers, as I mentioned above. 

Some russian iconpainters do something else. They saturate the layers of paint with olifa,or another oil. Remove the excess and leave the icons to fully dry up for a few days. They then varnish their icons.

Do you know specifically what oil they use, or if they add a dryer to the oil?  After isolating the icon with oil, what do they use as a varnish?

I very much admire the tradition of icon painting, and have many friends and students who are wonderful icon painters; but the tradition is, well, very traditional, and not all of its materials or methods are "best practices" (durable or safe ways to work, relative to current conservation science).  I think that most conservators would agree with me that Olifa is not a good varnish (slow drying, attracts dust, yellowing, not removable).  How soon problems show up, how much of a concern this is to the maker or owner of the artwork – well, these are complicated issues….  

Concerning the renaissance wax,i think that your layers were not thick enough to protect the paint. I have mentioned some experiments with various numbers of B72 layers. The thinnest ones did not provide any protection from the varnishes that were reacting with paint.( As a test for how many layers were needed for protection).

Yes, I think you're correct, that it was too thin. I appreciate your feedback.

For the L&B aerosol varnish. I have spoken to someone and told me that the problem might have been that i didnt shake the spray enough and might have caused problems. I don't know..i got confused because he also paints with  natural pigments and traditional egg emulsion and sprays his icons directly with no isolation etc. He does  this after 3 to 4 days and said that all is fine.

Everyone works differently – could be he paints in very thin layers, and/or on a less absorbent gesso, with faster drying umbers, has different expectations – without knowing all of the details (any one of which could be important), it's hard to say why a practice works for one person and not another.  It's true, spray varnishes need to be shaken very well, and take practice to apply consistently (don't spray too close or slowly – you get orange peel; nor too fast or far away – you get inconsistent converage).  Might be a matter of more practice. 

I didn't  quite understand your question on water based varnishes on top of B72? Do you mean if the surface produced is even ?

Often, when you apply a water-based substance atop a plastic-like, water-resistant coating (like B72), the substance beads up and won't flow. So I wondered if you experienced any of that.  Did you work with the Artisan Water Mixable Gloss Varnish or the water based Galeria Varnish series?

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[2021-05-20 07:19:53]

​I will start with your question regarding B72 and water based varnishes.

I think it depends on the viscosity of the varnish,In my experiments i used them directly without dilution,so I didnt have any problems with the layer of varnish becoming uneven. But I am guessing that if i would increase the water content yes the covering would be uneven. I need to try it out.

I have used W&N Artisans Water mixable oil varnish Satin and Gloss. I dont know if it helps but when i used the L&B aerosol varnish that caused whitening of the paint layer. I then tried using diluted W&N on top and it was fine.

-Now when I said icons suffer, i meant the bleaching problem,but also the disappearing of very thin final glazes,and the disappearing of pigments that tend to be less concentrated than others. For example titanium white vs Antimony white. The latter tends to fade changing the overall tone of the icon.

-I thought that natural pigments have a greater tendency to react. I have observed this with ochre and terra verde.

-Concerning FAM. Doesn't it occur even if the pigments are correctly tempered?

Under tempering is not an option but i had a friend that used to paint like that. His icons felt chalky and were of course white, up to the varnishing point with olifa. After some time he told me that he tried an emulsion consisting of 1:0.5 egg yolk to varnish. I dont remember exactly what he was using.. if not mistaken it was damar varnish.

- The person that advised me on the L&B varnish paints using concentrated paint mixtures,so in 3-4 layers he finishes the base layer of an icon. He also told me that lately he uses more egg in his mixtures because there is less effect from varnishing e.g Disappearing of pigment, and whitening..so i dont understand the FAM issue..

I tend to paint with glazes and thinner layers..i try using the 1:1 ratio after you have advised me ,so i do not understand what is happening. I tend to use more water to thin down the paint after the correct tempering of the pigment.



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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2021-05-23 08:23:17]

" when I said icons suffer, i meant the bleaching problem ,but also the disappearing of very thin final glazes, and the disappearing of pigments that tend to be less concentrated than others. For example titanium white vs Antimony white. The latter tends to fade changing the overall tone of the icon.

I have heard of the problem of "disappearing" glazes (that are not fugitive pigments) from one other iconographer.  I haven't experienced it and, unfortunately, have no idea what's happening.  The only thing I can contribute is that I have seen egg tempera paintings affected by very high humidity –one example in which the top layer of a painting did seem to sort of "disappear" in parts, and the only unusual circumstance was a high RH environment for a couple of weeks.  But this was just a single experience, and I don't know whether RH was specifically the problem, or if it relates to what you're seeing. 

"I thought that natural pigments have a greater tendency to react. I have observed this with ochre and terra verde'"

Au contraire, natural earth pigments are among the more stable colors.  Could you clarify what you mean by "react"?   Conservators, any thoughts on this?

"Concerning FAM. Doesn't it occur even if the pigments are correctly tempered?"

It seems logical that FAM would be exacerbated by an over tempered surface.  But yes, it's also possible that FAM can happen in a properly tempered painting, depending on conditions: FAM seems to be less common in small panels, appear more often in large panels.  It's believed to be exacerbated by high humidity but not contained by low humidity, and is not pigment dependent. FAM may be encouraged by less absorbent grounds (acrylic gesso) and non-absorbent supports (aluminum panels) because the porosity of traditional gesso ground and wood supports provide a home, so to speak, to mobile lipids; on less porous surfaces, excess lipids have nowhere to go except to the surface of a painting.   Isolating/varnishing egg tempera seems to suppress FAM.  As the italicized words indicate, much of this is speculative; I don't know if there have been many, if any, studies on FAM in egg tempera (Brian or Kristin, do you know?).   

"Under tempering is not an option but i had a friend that used to paint like that. His icons felt chalky and were of course white, up to the varnishing point with olifa. After some time he told me that he tried an emulsion consisting of 1:0.5 egg yolk to varnish. I dont remember exactly what he was using.. if not mistaken it was damar varnish.  The person that advised me on the L&B varnish paints using concentrated paint mixtures,so in 3-4 layers he finishes the base layer of an icon. He also told me that lately he uses more egg in his mixtures because there is less effect from varnishing e.g Disappearing of pigment, and whitening..so i dont understand the FAM issue."

Unfortunately it's impossible to accurately assess these issues without seeing how a person actually makes/tempers his or her paint, or the paintings that results (and even then it would be difficult!)  I just can't  know, from a distance, what " less egg" in a mix actually means relative to how the person previously tempered.  Paintings are such complicated constructions, as are the environments in which they live….so it's really hard, especially from a distance, to untangle the problem.  Wish I could be more helpful.  )-:   

"I tend to paint with glazes and thinner layers..i try using the 1:1 ratio after you have advised me ,so i do not understand what is happening. I tend to use more water to thin down the paint after the correct tempering of the pigment."

Yes, once you have properly tempered a paint, you thin it with water, not more egg.  However, if you REALLY thin a paint with a LOT of water (until it looks more like rinse water than paint), you may want to add a touch more yolk, since at that point the binder is so dispersed.  With attentive practice, you can develop a feeling for when thinned paint is underbound and needs a drop more egg.  

This may be a bit of an awkward analogy, but a well-tempered surface feels a bit like healthy human skin – not too dry or chalky, not to greasy or sticky.   The main thing is to stay attentive and interested in tempering and the paint surface, and learn through experience and intuition how to temper properly.  Consistent, proper tempering solves a lot of problems (although not all; atmosphere and circumstances play their part too).  


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[2021-05-26 12:41:13]

Emm i have noticed during my experiments that ochre and terra verde tend to bleach,especially ochre. It also happened to some of my icons..especially on the face and hands.

I didn't know about the skin analogy and correctly tempered paint! Thank you for letting me know.

I dont have anything else to report from my experiments,so i hope the information was helpful.

If i find something else i will report it,for anyone interested. Thank you all for all the tips and information.

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[2021-07-14 09:55:44]

​​Hello everyone,

I have some questions that i would be grateful if you could provide some clarification.

I was talking to an icon conservator about the B72 method that I am trying out. He said that acetone as a solvent tends to not fully evaporate? Which is confusing to me..and that with time it will damage the paint layer. I have done some searching and i have found that ,upon evaporation acetone tends to leave residues behind that should be cleaned with isopropanol. If i understood correctly, residues are left from the dissolved substances in the acetone and not from the acetone itself? 

If it so,then adding 1/8 of acetone to the ethanol paraloid mixture fully evaporates and doesnt leave anything behind apart from the dissolved B72 ,that forms the isolation layer?

He also said that B72 hardens even at 6%..which is strange for me..i have used up to 12% and it feels rubbery..i could even remove it with my hands if i rubbed the surface.

Thank you


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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2021-07-14 15:57:19]

​There is a small amount of solvent retention in B-72. This will lessen and evaporate over time. Many resins retain some solvent and release it as time goes on. Some of this has to do with the affinity of the solvent with the molecular structure of the resin. B-72 is routinely used on museum objects. We know that the film will become less rubbery and more solid over time. This is more of an issue when the B-72 is being used as an adhesive than as a surface coating where the “rubbery” quality could cause a join failure if it has not been allowed to offgas before applying strain. 

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2021-07-14 21:32:45]

Sorry that I skipped this part of your question. No, there are no residual components of acetone that should be removed with isopropanol. The very concept makes no sense to me.

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[2021-07-15 15:26:53]

Thank you Brian for the clarification. I now have more specific questions to your answers.

 I was wondering ​​if its known how much time is required for paraloid to release its solvent? In my case the ethanol/acetone mixture? Can the process become sped up,for example through heating?

Is this release hindered if a varnish is placed on top of the B72 layer?

Does this retention have any effect on the paint layers?

Do all this apply for the traditional ethanol- sandarac mixture?

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2021-07-15 21:13:56]

FIY, ethanol is retained for the shortest period of time from a film of B-72 as compared to other solvents. Acetone is close. I think that the primary consideration for this info is to realize that a surface may be minimally tacky for a period of time. The important take away would be to not wrap one’s artwork in a material that could stick, especially if exposed to elevated temperatures. Things like glassine or bubble wrap, etc. are really not appropriate as wrapping materials.

Other than this, I think that you are worrying too much. There should be no damage to a work that could initially receive a coating containing either ethanol or acetone. Keep in mind that these are very polar or at least high hydrogen bonding solvents and they can readily damage oil and acrylic paintings. Casein and egg tempera should be fine.

I am not sure what varnish you would put on top of the B-72. It is not uncommon to give an initial layer of a high molecular weight (MW) varnish like B-72 and follow that with a lower MW varnish like Regalrez, etc. The high MW would sort of isolate the surface while the low MW would provide the sheen and saturation (if that is desired). Even this is likely too fastidious for most situations and should only be attempted after much experimentation with mockups.  Most egg tempera painters do not wish for a super saturated surface effect. Others may as this is wholly an aesthetic consideration.

All resins retain the solvent for a period of time, how much and how long is particular to their molecular structure as stated and, of course, to the ambient temp/humidity. I would greatly caution against using a hot air gun to accelerate the process. Keeping the work in a warm, dry room may be advantageous for removing residual solvent but it is just as likely to cause problems in the substrate, sizing, ground, and paint layers. Best to leave that alone.

Sandarac yellows horribly (I have paint outs to prove it), it is best to just avoid it.

If you really want to go down the rabbit hole about B-72 and solvent retention, here is a very technical article of the subject:

https://heritagesciencejournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40494-019-0283-9

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2021-07-15 21:33:11]

Solvent evaporation and oxidation do occur through layers, it is just slowed down. This is more of an issue with oil paintings where the surface readily oxidizes and become hard while interior paint remains flexible. This does not mean that the interior oil layers will not oxidize, it is just that the surface can become brittle while the interior remains flexible causing drying cracks at the surface.

This is not really the same with aqueous systems where the paints become quite solid rather quickly (yes, they will become more brittle over time but not in the same manner as paints made from drying oils). 

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[2021-07-27 08:37:38]

​​Hello,

Concerning the acetone issue that came up. I had an icon that i had varnished/ sealed with the ethanol/acetone dissolved B72. It was fine up to the third week. I have sadly  notised today that there are alterations in some of the colours. I do not know if this is because of the acetone content,or because these areas were glazed several times.IMG_20210727_152042.jpgIMG_20210727_152054.jpg

I have attached these photographs to show the issue. The blue in the sphere is intact,whereas the blue on the clothes has become foggy with the underpainted layer bleached.

These fragments were painted as follows : The underpainting was a mixture of black pigment from charcoal, Titanium white and brown umber.

It was then glazed with a mixture of ultramarine and lapis lazuli. Followed by the successive layers containing ultramarine,brown umber and titanium white in different proportions. The resulting cloth was finely glazed with a grey muddy mixture of black,brown umber,titanium white . This was done in all areas including the sphere.

Any clues of what is happening?


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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2021-07-27 21:54:55]

I am not sure what is happening. It is also difficult to see what you are describing since I did not see what the surface looked like before the change. However, there is no physical possibility that the organic solvent acetone is bleached out the inorganic pigments you mention. I am not disputing that there has been some sort of blanching, bloom, or deplenishing of the surface binding layer that is causing a perceived lightening of the color. One can see a similar effect when you watch an underbound, aqueous paint layer dry. The color appears saturated when wet but grows lighter and lighter as it dries due to the paucity of binder and the exaggerate scattering of light. My guess is that the cause is either trapped moisture beneath the varnish layers or some form of disruption of the paint layer. There is no bleaching of colors like ochres and green earths. These are some of the most rock-solid colors that we possess. The transformation has to be a physical and not a chemical alteration. However, none of the above makes up for the fact that you are not happy with the appearance of your painting.

Just curious, how long was the paint left to dry before the varnish was applied?

PS Re-reading the thread I see mention of antimony white. Antimony tri oxide is quite poisonous, corrosive to one’s skin, and a carcinogen. This could be dealt with using good hygiene, but it also is darkened by hydrogen sulfide (let’s not forget the sulfur compounds in egg yolks). I do see its mention on a few icon painting related sites and that it can be imported from Russia for such purpose. It is true that zinc white is often added to surmount this problem, but I cannot think of a good reason to use that pigment in tempera. Perhaps there are virtues that I am unaware of.

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[2021-07-28 02:27:02]

​​The only reason i can think of this happening  is because of the many thin glazes. I have seen this happening in other situations when i had used other varnishes. I have no knowledge on the topic so i cannot explain anything ..i am just guessing.

The icon was left to dry for two weeks. I do not know if it matters but temperatures here vary from 30 -40 'C. 

When you mention physical reason of observing this..i do not understand what you mean?  When i brushed  B72,i was very careful to avoid disturbing the paint layer. 

You said that paraloid B72 tends to be more flexible when applied and as time passes it tends to harden. Does this have any effect on the paint?  Some sort of surface tension being caused?

Even so all these do not explain why other colours remain unaffected? The red which was a mixture of cadmium red with other pigments,is still unaffected.

IMG_20210728_083811.jpgIMG_20210728_083906.jpg

I have included more photographs,on the face left of the nose you can see a change,and also on the wings. The before and after effect can be seen here,since the remaining areas are still unaffected.

Out of interest,when using sandarac,how long does one need to wait before using it on a painting?

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[2021-07-28 02:32:06]

​​I apologise, i forgot to answer about antimony white. I understand the risks involving this pigment. I havent used it on this icon. The reason for using it is because it tends to be weaker than titanium white. It has weaker tinting strength and is more transparent. It also has a less chalky effect than titanium white...its texture i mean. Due to these properties,i can manipulate colour easier when using it.

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Moderator Answer (brian baade)

[2021-07-28 12:09:14]

I cannot comment on the sandarac as I would advise to not use it. As to a more transparent white, why not use barium sulfate or even a mixture of some titanium white with a chalk or another low refractive index filler which would increase transparency and warm up the color slightly.

I have to admit that I do not understand what is happening to your colors. It is just too difficult to judge this based on photos. Perhaps Koo or another member here can comment.

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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2021-07-28 15:18:13]

​It's a beautifully painted icon, how disappointing it must be for you to see it change.  There are four things I can think of that the bleaching may be: 1. A chemical change in pigments.  2. Trapped moisture.  3.  Semi-transparent, inorganic solids on the surface (scattering light, as Brian noted).  4. Mobile lipids.  I'm not saying these are the only or definitive option (or necessarily even possible!); they're merely what occur to me. 

It's often so hard to diagnose what's gone wrong in a painting because there are so many variables.  Sometimes all it takes is a single, weird anomaly in a material, method or the environment for things to go askew.  So while I don't think, given your experience, any of the following are likely to apply, on the off chance that they might I'll mention a few things to consider.

1. Acids can bleach out lapis and ultramarine.  I'm sure you know this, and I understand other colors in the icon are affected (I see the bleaching in the green earth on the side of the nose).  Still, acidity is a consideration.  Did you use an acidic preservative (i.e. vinegar) in the paint?  Or was the paint exposed to acidic vapors of any sort?  (FYI, as an experiment, to see how quickly I could speed up metalpoint tarnishing, I placed a metalpoint test panel over a tray of apple cider vinegar; within 2 days the vapors had completely dissolved every trace of metalpoint – which shows the deleterious effects of acidic vapors!).    

2. When I lived in a state with a lot of limestone, the hard tap water created 'limescale' in my pigment pastes; a white, chalky (literally) residue.  If a glaze with a lot of water and limescale in it were applied on a surface, the chalk might appear transparent when saturated; but then, as the water content evaporates and/or a varnish gradually sinks in and sets, the chalky particles could be partially exposed on the surface and lose their transparency.  What sort of water are you using for painting?  If very hard water, best to use distilled.  

3.  As I'm sure you're aware, do not varnish on humid or rainy days.  The relative humidity (RH) should be approximately 45-55%.  The room should be a moderate temperature, neither too cold nor too hot, c. 65-75° F (18-24° C).  Out of necessity, under a deadline, I've varnished slightly outside these variables with success; just be aware that the more you stray from best practices, the more potential there is for problems to occur.   

4. I have this admittedly ill-formed, inarticulate (at this point) idea that polar solvents (such as acetone), which swell the paint film, can sometimes/somehow cause lipids to move about; in short, potentially bring about areas of fatty acid migration.  I know Dr. Stoner has the opposite experience: coatings atop egg tempera suppress fatty acid migration - once the coating has hardened, that is.  But before it hardens, maybe the solvent disrupts relationships among the binder's components and solids?   Very vague, I know… But perhaps the bleaching is lipids (since FAM on the surface of egg tempera does appear like whitish fuzz), now trapped beneath the varnish.  Unfortunately I can't clearly explain how or why this might happen. 

5. Varnishes, because they saturate the surface, make everything pop – including visual anomalies.  I understand the bleaching wasn't there initially, but gradually appeared after varnishing; still, it's possible the varnish made more visible an anomaly that was to a lesser degree already present in the paint film.  

Finally – although I'm sure this is small comfort – others rarely see a painting as perceptively or critically as the artist who made it.  The first time I saw a live theater performance, I congratulated a cast member only to have him explain, with great angst, all the lines he had missed or fubbed (that I was completely unaware of).  I know the bleaching changed the icon, and of course you want to understand and solve this problem.  Still, the parts of the image you shared are wonderfully painted, and I hope it finds a good home.

Koo​

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[2021-07-30 02:04:13]

​Hello,

Dear Brian, i have read somewhere about barium suphate but i didnt get the chance to try it out. Initially while studying we were using lead white,but due to being very poisonous,i personally stopped. Others still use it. With all this varnishing issue i think i will be using Titanium white,even if it is not ideal for my taste. From Koo Schadlers answer using chalk would cause problems afterwards i think. Even if it doesnt i dont understand how chalk will mix with egg yolk,wont it lump up and form a muddy like mixture?

Dear Koo Schadler ,thank you for you kind words,i am actually still a learner concerning icon painting,especially the whole egg emulsion technique.

When i paint i tend to use an egg yolk/distilled water mixture 1:1 ratio,like you suggested. Now in the summer i tend to used 3-4 drops of white wine,which i think it acidified ,due to the high temperature. Even so, 3 drops are being greatly diluted ,in my opinion to affect the blue colours. In my case i think its the black pigment that was affected. We prepare this ourselves by using olive tree wood. When properly burned it produces a very "cold" black pigment,it produces blue like colours when mixed with titanium white.

When experimenting on strips of colour,i did see some change on this pigment mixtures after using paraloid on them. Even so i tend to add a little black pigment everywhere to harmonise my colours. The fact that the other colours stayed the same doesnt make any sense. I have no idea.
The egg emulsion is with distilled water but the water i use to wash my brushes when working is tap water. When i glaze i sometimes use some of the tap water. But the water here is not hard. Even so i will try using only distilled water.

As far as humidity when varnishing,i tend to varnish in a room. I admit that i dont check the humidity levels,it is also very hot were i live so,i dont know if it is due to these variables. Even so it would have been an overall varnishing problem through out the icon. The fact that only certain areas have been affected ( I hope it stays like that) suggests to me that its either a solvent problem ,the acetone like you mention or a pigment problem.

Others also told me about acetone being the problem. I was asking about sandarac because it is an ethanol based varnish.I dont think i will be using it,but in Romania they use it instead of paraloid.Isolating the icons and then varnishing on top. 

I will try and experiment with only using ethanol as a solvent for paraloid.



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Moderator Answer (koo schadler)

[2021-07-30 09:54:23]

​It's mysterious, I can't explain the bleaching - all my guesses are shots in the dark. I think your approach, trying another solvent, is a good idea.  Also, do get a hygrometer to keep track of humidity; RH effloressence can, in fact, appear inconsistent.  Although it doesn't sound like that's your problem, varnishing in high RH is something to be careful of.  

​As for your carbon black, I don't know why it could be causing the problem but I'll think about it.  The one notble characteristic of most carbon blacks is that they have very small particle size, are general hard to disperse. ​ But not sure how that relates...

Regarding chalk, I didn't mean to say you can't use it; you can.  I only mean to say that, as you know, once the water content in tempera paint evaporates out and the binder settles and cures, pigment particles are no longer full encased by water/binder, and hence go from being fully saturated to being less or unsatruated; hence a pigment's coloration and degree of transparency/opacity reverts back, more or less, to how it appears in a dry state.  So in a final glaze of a tempera paint with lots of chalk in it, the chalk, which is transparent when fully surrounded by water, may revert to a more opaque state (depending on how encased by binder or varnish it is; the more fully encased, the more it retains transparency; the more exposed to air, the more opaque, white and 'chalky' it appears).  Chalk is a fine pigment, it just doesn't necessarily stay fully transparent in tempera.   ​

Koo

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The Department of Art Conservation
303 Old College
University of Delaware
Newark, DE 19716, USA
Phone: 302-831-3489