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Stretching an oversized linen canvasApproveRejectUn-ApproveSubscribeUn-Unsubscribe

Question asked 2022-10-10 18:33:09 ... Most recent comment 2022-12-14 13:21:30
Flexible Supports Grounds / Priming Sizes and Adhesives

​Hello,

​I need to stretch an oversized linen canvas. Its 400cm x 500 cm or 13ft x 16ft.  I plan to use acrylic size and acrylic gesso, for the simple reason that i feel its going to be easier than using traditional materials.  After the painting is finished, rolled up and delivered, the plan is to fix it over flat wooden boards.    I mention all this because since its going to be placed over the flat wood,  since im going to use acrylic base materials for the preparation, and finally since its linen , do  i need to really "stretch" the linen? Can i just lay it out flat and size it and gesso it?   

If this is not the case, any suggestions for how to stretch something so large? Im only use to streching smaller size canvases or preparing wood.  

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Moderator Answer (gwatson@goldenpaints.com)

[2022-10-11 10:14:31]

Water based acrylic products tend to swell natural fibers and can distort the fabric. To get the best results without a wavy surface or buckling, we usually recommend stretching the fabric before it is primed. If you are going to be using oil paints over the surface, then we recommend 3 or more coats of Acrylic Gesso (acrylic dispersion ground) without any clear acrylic products as a sizing. For acrylic paintings, either is fine. To protect from Support Induced Discoloration (SID) you can first apply Gloss Medium or GAC 100 then apply Gesso. As for stretching something this large, that is more of a logistical issue. If it can be stapled right to the wall or on the floor, then that could work. Something to consider, if the weave of the linen is open, then drop cloth plastic should be stapled down first, pulled tight is ideal to remove any creases. The plastic sheeting should protect the floor or wall from acrylic product squeezing through and gluing the linen to that surface. Using a larger trowel is a great way to spread the Gesso very quickly with minimal toolmarks.

good luck!

Greg Watson - Golden Artist Colors​​

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[2022-10-12 21:56:41]

So for oil painting the use of an acrylic size, say GAC 200, isn't any better for stiffening or sealing than just adding another few coats of acrylic gesso?

Marc.​​

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[2022-10-16 19:07:13]

Well I suppose Greg Watson has already answered my question.  The only point of deviation I reason would be if the acrylic gesso was far more absorbent than standard and allowed the oil to soak through to the linen.​​

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Moderator Answer (gwatson@goldenpaints.com)

[2022-10-17 09:53:09]

​​Hello again, 

The Acrylic Gesso does have some level of absorbency, but we have found that 3 coats is enough in most cases to protect the fabric from oil penetration. More coats provide additional protection and make a stiffer layer. We found that 4-5 coats is about the same in terms of stiffness as a coat of GAC 200 combined with several coats of gesso. ​

Greg

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[2022-10-18 20:32:01]

Thanks for your reply. Reasurance about the materials is good to have.

Marc.​​

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[2022-12-07 11:33:03]

Regarding the stiffness of 4-5 coats of acrylic gesso, ​I recently make tests of priming linen canvas with Golden acrylic gesso for oil painting.  I tested both 4 coats and 6 coats (the first 2 coats were scraped on, the next ones brushed on).  The test canvas pieces are extremely flexible - much more so than I was expecting.  It is MUCH more flexible than preprimed linen I've used in the past.  That makes me very nervous about using only acrylic gesso to prime canvas for an oil painting that will be on stretched canvas about 30" x 40".  Someone from Golden's Product Use Support suggested adding molding paste to the priming.  Is that sound advice?  If it is, would it be better to use molding paste as a separate layer, or mix it with the gesso?  Would it make the surface more absorbent (which I don't want)?  Does anyone have any other advice about a way to stiffen the canvan more?  ​

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[2022-12-07 13:09:22]

I've recently found a variable within the nature of fabrics theselves.  Well of course there are different starting weights and stiffness, but in using GAC 200 some absorbed this to vastly different effects.  One fabric regarded the application as ittle more than a layer of gesso or two, while another left it with thick cardboard like stiffness.

Regarding the use of Golden's molding paste.  Off the top of my head I might suppose that it contains solid material that retains form better than acrylic gesso.  So supposing this; troweled into the weave it would resist pressure and movement, if only from the side of the primed face.  (A test of this would be to see if it rolls with ease remarkably more tightly primed side in rather than out.  This shouldn't be done on a finished work.  Which should, if ever, be rolled paint side out.)  I would hope the moulding paste resists deformation to both directions, but it's just a possibilty that occurs to me.

I await for someone to refute everything I've said. LOL.

Fellow artist, Marc​​

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[2022-12-07 17:09:31]

​Sorry, that should be  "A test of this would be to see if it rolls with ease remarkably more tightly, primed side OUT rather than IN.." * 

Or to put it another way it seems much stiffer to roll against the paint layer

*A slightly clumsy sentence, and it doesn't help if I get my intentions about face.​

Marc.​

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Moderator Answer (gwatson@goldenpaints.com)

[2022-12-07 17:21:21]

​Molding Paste should certainly stiffen the fabric. Use it on its own and work it right into the fabric with a trowel or large palette knife - directly over the Gesso. Put as many coats on as you can. It will fill the weave and then once the surface is real smooth, it will become more difficult to apply without leaving tool marks. It has similar absorbency to Gesso, but you can come over top with a layer or two of Gesso if you like the feel and performance of that product better.  

Greg​

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Moderator Answer (gwatson@goldenpaints.com)

[2022-12-07 17:24:36]

​Forgot to mention that Molding Paste is flexible in normal ambient temperatures. As acrylic layers get cold below 50 degrees, they start to harden up. So, be sure to roll and unroll the canvas in normal room temperatures. And be gentle if it is somewhat thick, as even flexible materials are more likely to perform better if they are rolled and unrolled slowly. 

Greg​

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[2022-12-08 15:37:05]

Thank you Marc and Greg for your responses.  Sorry I didn't sign my first comment about the stiffness of 4-5 coats of acrylic gesso - I'm new to this forum.

Marc, the linen I used is medium/heavy (about like my Levi jeans) and tightly woven.  There was almost no strick-through from scraping on the first 2 layers of gesso.  However, it is very flexible.

Greg. to make sure I understand you, I should trowel on molding paste over gesso - in other words, a coat (or 2?) of gesso, then molding paste, then more gesso if desired?  While looking for information re: using molding paste to prime canvas, some site said not to apply molding paste directly to canvas (but I've seen lots of contradictory information on different sites).  Should molding paste not be applied directly to canvas?

This might be of interest to you - about 5 years ago I looked for the latest advice on priming hardboard.  Per info on Golden's and Gamblin's sites, I made 2 test boards: one using Golden GAC 100 and Acrylic Gesso; and one using Gamblin PVA + their Oil Painting Ground, which is an alkyd (on both I applied 2 coats of each with the recommended drying time between each coat).  I let each board dry for 1 week (recommended time), then did a "scratch test" using the pointed butt end of my palette knife.  Both boards failed.  The priming on both pretty easily scratched off to reveal the hardboard below.  I then tested gesso alone on hardboard, which didn't scratch off (which is the way I had always primed hardboard).  It appeared to me the acrylic "sizes" caused the gesso not to adhere very well.  I no longer have the board with GAC 100 and gesso, but I still have the one with PVA and Gamblin Oil Painting Ground.  Today I tried the scratch test on it to see if there was any change - there wasn't, it still scratched off.  For that reason I'd be reluctant to use any GAC or PVA under gesso for priming.  (However, canvas, because of its texture, may give enough adhesion between GACs or PVA and gesso, and if I tried the same test using rabbit skin glue and oil primer on hardboard - what used to be the standard for priming linen for oil painting - it might scratch off as well).  Any thoughts on that?

Peggy​

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[2022-12-09 15:10:25]

When able to, I gain fabric samples to test for sizing and priming.  ( I'm often surpised by the result. Weaves that I thought would work I find unappealing after coating.)  I still have most of these. The GAC 200 I notice has greater penetration than just acrylic gesso.  Size strike through is almost complete on some.  Where as acrylic gesso is merely a few widely spaced pin pricks.  GAC 200 just soaks in more, and in doing so stiffens it. I should add that I like to pressure spray my linen flat on the line outside to remove any dissolvable production sizing first. I've been using up my large 4 or 5 litre (we use metric here) bottle GAC 200 perhaps to then just use more layers of gesso. GAC 200 needs a higher setting temp than gesso and perhaps the notion of just keep it simple, but now I wonder at the wisdom of possibly getting rid of it.  Re your hardboard panel's problem, I can't scratch this off any of my linen samples.   I would though question the use of this alone on canvas as the direct point of contact with oil paint.  It seems logical that oil paint will stick better to acrylic gesso than to any GAC or unpigmented acrylic medium.

Marc.​​

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[2022-12-14 13:21:30]

​Thanks for the additional observations, Marc.

Peggy​

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