MITRA Forum Question Details

​I had this problem when using a well known alkyd medium. Well I didn't use a couch, but the the second layer would partially dissolve the first.  The more medium I used, the worse it got.  I deduced the effect was caused by the alkyd medium quick dry setting up, but not being truely dry the next day.  The solvents already within the gell medium then acted on the first layer when painting the second.  Your cause however may not be the same,

Marc.

​Thank you for the quick response. This particular painting is on golden acrylic ground. The underpainting was done with raw umber and lead white. the first color layer was then done with no medium and a limited pallete of mainly mars colors. This was initially for a show in June but because of Covid-19 it was pushed to December so I took a hiatus on the painting. So that color layer had quite a few months to dry. I then applied a couch of oleogel from Rublev and applied a second layer, this time with a more open pallete of opaques and transparents. After about 8 days I repeated this process and while applying another couch the paint began wiping off, only in very specific spots. Particularly in the lightest areas where the most lead white is. (The underpainting is done similar to that of Rembrandt). When I noticed it delaminatiing I abandoned that sitting and waited another week and a half. But alas, last night it happened again in the upper area of the form. This time I just scrubbed that whole layer off and repainted it. This also happened on another painting except in the black glazed areas. However that painting was done with a mars black/lead white grissaile and on gray acrylic ground and later layered with a leaded glass medium that does contain solvent. I'm completely baffled.

John.

​Oh and to answer your other question. I'd say that the main thing that has changed in my process is that when I was younger I was much more liberal with my use of medium. I'd use medium from the very beginning to the end. Dipping in medium and into paint carelessly. Now I barely use it. In fact, I only really need medium to bring back the surface so I can match my values as I try and finish my work. That and to make my later layers a little fatter. Also, when I "seal" my drawing, its less about sealing it as it is just to tone my substrate so I'm not starting on a white surface. Could it be that gel mediums arent quite mixing with the paint when I apply a couch and therefore kind of getting sealed wet, between a dry layer and a wet layer?

​Hello George,

I use absolutely zero solvent in my process. Typically when the paint lifting happens its when I'm in the process of removing any excess oil. I can't stress enough how little medium I use. Sometimes I use a makeup sponge and no matter how gentle I am, it'll lift paint off in some areas. I started to worry that perhaps there was vitamin E in the sponge so I just bought new ones that have no additives. The other day I used a squirrel hair to apply it as thin as possible and it happened again. Mind you, this is only on one figure of a 3 figure composition. Everything else in the painting has been fine throughout the process. This seems to be a common occurance in a few of my paintings. There is always one spot that just doesn't accept the 1st or 2nd color layer. And to answer your 3rd question. It appears that the paint only lifts off down to the underpainting. The underpainting always seems stable. But I wanna add that this issue has happened on top of all different underpaintings. Some done with mars black/lead white, mars brown/lead white, raw umber/lead white staight out of the tube. No medium, no solvent. 

​I also want to add that my first few layers of paint without medium or a couch are very sunken in because I paint very thin and mainly use synthetic oxides. Which is why I find the need to add a couch as I get further along because most times, the whole painting is dull.